In this episode, Stephen talks about the dangers of asbestos, how to identify asbestos, testing for asbestos in your home and how to keep your family safe and healthy around asbestos.
Welcome to Your Healthy House. I’m Stephen Collette. In this podcast, I explore your indoor environmental quality concerns and opportunities. We look at the facts and debunk the fiction. We will discuss examples you can relate to and the doable actions you can take in your own home or apartment. We will also look at the history of how our homes are the way they are, and the future of healthy housing for everyone. I promised to make this fun and interesting for both of us.
Episode Number 19, what are the dangers of asbestos in my home?
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 19. This is sort of season two, we’ve had a holiday and a break due to COVID. But we’re back in the saddle. I’m glad to be in your ears talking to you about how to create your own healthy house. So today we’re going to talk about as bestest the dangers of asbestos, how to test for asbestos, asbestos in your home. A lot of people have questions about it. And it’s really important. Now to be super clear and out of the gate, as best as is a regulated material. And what that means is there are government regulations regarding as bestest. And you may be listening to me from around the world somewhere. And I’m very grateful, please leave a review and let me know where you’re from, because that’s awesome. But I do see it in the statutes. And the regulations are going to differ. So I’m going to try to stay away from the regulations as much as possible, I will touch on them. But to be clear, rules will vary based on where you are. So always check your state, your country, your province, and find out who governs it, for example, just so we know. I’m in Ontario, Canada and an Ontario as best as is governed by the Ministry of Labor, because they care about workers health, while other places and maybe a Ministry of Environment, Department of Public Works on a variety so make sure you check so that you know exactly where you stand and what you can and can’t do legally, when we’re discussing as best as after that disclaimer.
What is it? Let’s start with that? Well, it’s actually a mineral comes out of the ground. And it’s super easy to dig up. And that’s why we kind of like to use it and humans have actually used it for 1000s of years. You know, we know that even like in 2500 bc in Finland, they were using it in clay pots to add strength. In the same area Egyptians would actually weave the fibers into their burial shrouds as well. And Funny enough, the Greeks used as bestest and lamp wicks and woven cloth. But even crazier is the Greeks also learned that soiled cloths of asbestos could be cleaned by throwing them in the fire. Yes, so that means they would make clothes that have as best as fibers. And if they got them dirty, they would throw them into fire to clean them off. Because asbestos didn’t burn. Once it got cool enough dust off and put the clothes on and carry on. I don’t recommend that as a cleaning practice in your own home with your clothes, it won’t go as well.
Now, the modern times we really started using this bestest during World War Two, hundreds of 1000s of workers were installing as best as as an insulator because it’s an amazing insulator. And they were putting them in ships, and warships and stuff during the war. And so these typically men at the time, were working in really cramped and confined spaces, no ventilation, no personal protective equipment at the time. And a lot of exposure to these fibers. And then, you know, 2030 late years later, they were diagnosed with a specialty osis lung cancer, mesothelioma. We’ll get into some of that. But at the time, they were like, yeah, it’s kind of harmful and Yeah, kind of kills some people, but boy, does it save 1000s more during the war. So we’re gonna keep using it. But it wasn’t until you know, the late 60s early 70s that we were like, okay, like, this is really bad and we have to do something and and that’s when the rules and regulations started coming into into play. So again, what is it well, it’s a mineral comes out of the ground, as I said, and there’s a couple different types of asbestos and basically the broken down into into two different mineral logical classifications serpentines and amphiboles whatever goofy words, the main one is chrysotile, and that’s a serpentine. And so probably somewhere in the range of 90 plus percent of fibers as best as fibers that were exposed to are going to be chrysotile. And they’re typically a white gray long fiber will then see from the amphibole asbestos, now maybe 5% or amasite, and they’re kind of tan colored and they’re actually straight. And then crocodilite, which is just lovely to say crocodile light crocodile light delight. And you would think it would be crocodilian but it’s actually Bluey green.And they’re kind of spirally so I have no idea where the crockodilite term comes from. But yeah, and there’s others tremolite actinolite and and enthophyllite. Tongue twisting tricks, and but basically, the bulk of what we’re gonna see in our homes is going to be chrysotile. And then some of the chrysotile of white fiber
Why do we have it in our homes for if it’s so bad? Well, we use it for a lot of things for a long time, especially post World War Two. Pre our first exposure in our homes to as best as was actually a replacement for horsehair in our plasters. So pre World War One jumping back a war. The standard practice was to put horsehair into your wall and ceiling plasters and the horsehair act as a as a binder as a strengthen or reduce cracking and, and because there was a bit of silicon that released moisture a little slower and so that also reduced the cracking. The challenge was we shipped all the horses over to Europe and World War Two and shot them. So we kind of ran out of our horse stock. So post World War One we started using as bestest. Now, if you have an old home and if you know you have horsehair in it. I’ve never seen in my in my years testing, you know and sampling that they would use the same thing and that’s because most plasterers wouldn’t use two materials to do the same outcome because that costs money and we’re all trying to make a living. Now if you don’t have horsehair in your old 100 year old homes plaster that does not default and automatically mean you have as best as some people some master plasters never put anything in their mix, you know, the mix, especially during the days of plaster homes was a pretty guarded secret. It was their, their recipe for success literally. And so you didn’t mess with the mix, you didn’t change up the mix, you kept the mix the way it was, and you train the apprentices to use the max or you hit him over the head like that was that was how he did it. And once the apprentice, you know, mastered the trade and knew the recipe they had to move away so that they weren’t competing with the same mix. post World War One, some people would start to use as best as and that was mixed into the plaster for the strengthening and reduce cracking and that’s used and then all the way up into the drywall areas post World War Two up until the 1980. We’ll see especially this also in a lot of materials unfortunately, in our homes.
It’s found in well it’s just a lot of stuff floor tiles would be the most common. Next one that we’ll see. And oftentimes there’ll be the old linoleum or vinyl nine by nine floor tiles. The nine by nine seem to have the more than 12 by twelves. But we’ve I’ve seen them in 12 by 12. I’ve also seen it in vinyl flooring like sheet goods as well.
What most of us have physically seen it as around duct wrap or more commonly around pipe wrap like in for hot water radiators and stuff like that and you’ll see this white papery wrap around the pipes to keep the keep the heat in the pipes. And that’s the most common place that that will physically see sort of really high content asbestos and sometimes around the ductwork as well as 60s and 70s they put around the ductwork and you know in the joist cavities and under floors, around the boots where the where the duct comes up through the floor, between the floor and the duct. You may find a specialist there as well which isn’t so good. But there’s a lot of other materials that it could be shingles, siding, sheathing, light fixture backs, acoustic tile ceiling tiles, Some, some ceiling tiles contain asbestos more common in commercial buildings, stucco and stipple. So those 1970s, late 60s like crazy ceilings that look like you know, you’re in a cave with all the stalagmites and stalactites, and whatever that thickness needed, needed some strength to hold it in place. And that can doesn’t always but can contain asbestos.
I’ve even seen it like in furnaces, furnace rooms and mechanical rooms, as best as board like four by eight sheets of as best as board, I’ve seen it behind like woodstoves as well. So, yeah, a lot of different places a lot of different places in our homes, up until about 1980. And that’s going to vary depending on where you are. But roughly throughout the world around 1980, we stopped using it. But again, jurisdictions will vary. So at that point, we’re like, okay, we can’t use it anymore. Of course, you know, what they did was like, well, we can’t use it anymore. But whatever you have in the shop, on your truck, at the store, in the shipping yard, and at the manufacturing plant, all of that right now can still go out, but you just can’t make any more of it. So although there was a timeline and a cut off, it was still used, unfortunately for a few more years. But if your house is newer than that, let’s say 1980 for your jurisdiction, your theory theoretically should be fine that you don’t have it where in doubt and near those timeframes, you still might want to test them.
One other spot we should mention because it’s it’s a big one in the United States and that was vermiculite insulation. So vermiculite insulation is is another mineral. vermiculite comes into the ground, just like asbestos does. But there was a vermiculite mine in the United States that they were a huge mine. And they were digging it out for insulation to make this popcorn like Goldy popcorn like insulation. The challenge was is it had another mineral with it, it it had as best as within this mine. And it was really, really, really fine, barely, barely visible. And unfortunately, that just happened to be the largest insulation, mine of vermiculite mine in the world. And so you’ve some people may notice grace insulation or zona light or vermiculite, it goes by a variety of different but it was Libby Montana. And in the United States, this is the largest Superfund site, which is of environmental protection, exposure, you know, barbed wire fence, and, you know, and another layer of barbed wire fence, and people can’t go near it. And it’s monitored for exposure. And unfortunately, even today, there’s still legal actions going on with it. And it’s a terrible, terrible situation. In the last three countries to be still mining, as best as we’re actually Canada, Canada, Russia, and Zimbabwe. So as a Canadian, that makes me feel warm and fuzzy. But it’s true in in a town in Quebec, and when you look at that town from Google Maps, it’s terrible, because you can see a small collection of homes on the west side, nice homes, and then on the east side, all the workers homes, which of course, the east and that location is actually downwind. So all the workers homes are actually downwind of the mine, and all the management’s homes were on the on the upward side, which is a terrible thing. So it is still mind. It’s an amazing product was so what’s so amazing about it well, well, it doesn’t burn. And it is an insulator, it doesn’t catch fire, it doesn’t you know, it’s not impacted by heat. It, it performs really well it can be very strong. And it’s really easy to mine. And all those things make it easy to use. And outside of the home. One of the most common place to use it is actually in brake pads, your car’s brake pads have asbestos fibers in it because you don’t want the brakes to overheat. And so they work really well unfortunately, they’re not all asbestos, but there’s this bestest in them. And so these fibers, like I said, That’s why they’ve been used for 1000s of years because they work really well, unfortunately. So you know, and if you go on to Internet Archive, a fabulous site, www.internetarchive.org . It’s a great nonprofit. It’s the internet’s library. They have some old building, supplementals and magazines and, and advertisements all through there. It’s super amazing. And you’ll find some old, you know, asbestos stuff spray asbestos and asbestos wrap.
And, you know, in commercial commercially, we would use it as well, like around washing machines around motors, motor winding so that the motor wouldn’t overheat. So a lot of different things in electric motors. Yeah.
So what let’s talk a bit about the health issues. And I am not a doctor, please keep that in mind. I’m not a doctor, this is not medical advice. But what do I know? Well, it’s not good for you. We’ve kind of figured that out. Now, I want you to imagine a pen with a pocket clip on it. Does anyone still use pocket clips? Like does anyone actually put a pen in? fascinating question for another time. But I want you to imagine a pen with a pocket clip on it. And that’s kind of like wouldn’t as best as fiber is it’s a long, thin fiber, and there’s a hook on the end of it. And what happens is this doesn’t break laterally, like spaghetti does right, we break spaghetti in half, so it all fits in the pot. But this doesn’t work that way. The fibers actually break longitudinally. So they become finer and finer needles with hooks on the end. And so and so they become really, really light. And they become so light that they can remain airborne for days. And that’s a concern, obviously. But what happens is when we do breathe them in is that they can, you know, our nose hairs and our wet throat will stop a lot of them. But the really small fibers will get into our lungs. And those needles with hawks as what happens is, is the hook catches in our lungs. And as we breathe that expansion and contraction, those needles scratch our lungs. And if it happens with large enough long term exposures, oftentimes industrial workplace exposures. To my knowledge, that’s that’s where all the research is. You know, there’s not those kind of exposures typically in our home, but it’s these long term high level exposures that cause scarring, then those scratches, scratch our lungs, and it causes scarring. And that can lead to a specialty osis and the cancer mesothelioma, and people have actually died from it, which is terrible. And so regardless of regulations anywhere, no level is safe, zero, right, no level of safe. They may have clearance tests and stuff like that. But no level is safe. So we want to make sure that we do get rid of it from our homes as much as possible. Okay. We’re gonna pause for a minute and have a word from our sponsor.
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All right, we’re back. And we’re going to talk about you know, how do I know if I have asbestos in my home? Well, we need to test and again rules and regulations. As a homeowner as a tenant, you may be allowed to test in your jurisdiction, I don’t know. Obviously, we’d love to have someone professional trained. And in your jurisdiction, they may need to be certified to actually test for asbestos. So always check building biologists in your region would be a great place to start because they know the whole house and understand Building Biology. Environmental consultants can help you with that. So how do we measure Well, basically, you need to take a sample of the element of concern whether that’s plaster drywall compound, floor tiles, ceiling stipple, pipe wrap, duct wrap, vermiculite insulation, you need to actually take a sample you need to actually like cut a piece off smash a piece off. Now be careful about the smashing because if you smash it, you’re gonna release fibers and you could put something in the air. And we definitely don’t want to do that. So that’s why, you know, you got to follow the rules and regulations. It’s not something you can identify on site, you cannot, it has to go to a lab, a certified lab in your jurisdiction, who is legally allowed to, and properly set up for taking as best as samples and analyzing them. And typically, they’re used what’s called a polarized light microscopy, PLM, and that’s, oftentimes there’s other ones, but that’s certainly been the standard for years. But again, the techniques that they use also will be regulated. So it’s not a matter of just how you take it, but it’s also how you analyze it. So you have to make sure that they’re certified, the lab is certified to analyze as best as in your jurisdiction. And so that’s going to be if you’re doing it yourself, and you’re allowed to do it yourself, you’re going to find a lab that analyzes it, and you’re going to talk to them and say I have you know, this I have plaster, I have vermiculite I have whatever, and they’re going to tell you what they need and how to do it if you are allowed to do it. So basically, you know, you’re gonna get a like a sandwich bag, a Ziploc bag, and you’re gonna fill, fill it up with bits taken from a variety of locations. To make sure we have a homogenous sort of mix, like for plaster yet, you might take it in 357 locations. And in my jurisdiction, that number is actually regulated as well based on square footage of the area of concern. And so that’s how it works. So again, you’re not just taking one because remember with us with in plaster was mixed in, right. So did you know Jimmy remember to put the as best as and every time did Jimmy forget one batch and so this, this corner doesn’t have it in this corner has high because he didn’t mix it properly. And there’s a big clump of it in the bottom. That adds very ability when it’s mixed on site added on site. Now manufactured products like floor tiles, well, they better be homogenous, like that’s the point of the manufacturing process. majors jurisdiction, we’re still we still have to take multiple samples, despite manufacturing processes shouldn’t vary. But that’s just that’s just the rules where I live. vermiculite attic, like attic insulation. Well, the fibers may settle or they may be airborne. So as with any attic, never go up into an attic without a respirator on. Because there’s always dust floating around and none of that dust is good for you. Because you don’t clean your attic. You don’t go up there and vacuum monthly. Not that I’m recommending you should you just stay out of your attic. But keep in mind that, you know those sorts of things are aerosolized and we’re stirring them up. So you don’t have to take the proper safety precautions if you are allowed to. And obviously, if you’re hiring someone to bring in, you know, you want to have that conversation, what kind of safety precautions personal protection, what kind of exposures? Yep, that’s what that’s kind of, you know, you follow the lab or requirements you take samples is and the samples off to analyze it. And you’re getting a report, and you’re gonna pay based on speed of turnaround time. So you want a quick report, it’ll be you know, cost more, you can wait, you know, two weeks, it’ll cost you less, for example. And they’re going to tell you what’s in it and how much And basically, whether it’s asbestos containing material ACM, that’s your technical term ACM, as best as containing material. Now, me interestingly, and why I say that because it’d be like, well, it either has it or it doesn’t, right. It’s either zero or it has it? Well, yes. And no. So where I live in Ontario, it’s not zero. It’s point five. So if it’s above point 5%, as best as containing material, that’s considered positive. If it’s, let’s say point two, five, it’s considered negative. So it’s not zero in all jurisdictions. It’s actually can be it can be, but people have different jurisdictions have thresholds. So in Ontario, which just happens to be point 5%.
Now, I want you to wrap your head around point 5%. I want you to think of a 12 by 12 floor tile, right just a regular floor tile, one foot by one foot 30 centimeters by 30. centimeters. Okay, I want you to cut that up into 100 squares, right? So imagine 10 squares across 10 squares down. So you can kind of visualize you know how big those squares might be 100 squares on a 30 centimeter by 30 centimeter. They’re pretty small squares. That’s 1%. Now we’re talking about point 5%. Right. And so, you know, floor tile, for example, you know, might contain somewhere between half a percent and 5%. So, just for giggles, and let’s just say, you know, 3%, just for giggles, so that’s three squares, three of those little squares 100, you’ve, you’ve cut a 12 by 12 tile into 100 squares. Three of that, actually, is how much especially this relative to the whole composition is there. That’s not a lot. Now, when we’re pulling floor tiles, for example, you know, how much is actually aerosolized. Not a lot like it breaks. And so if we’re just if we’re not using power tools, or anything, and so when we think about something like a floor tile, there’s not a lot aerosolized. So there’s not a lot of exposure if you’re not using power tools. So rules and regulations, using power tools on as best as containing material is very much a No, no, that’s, you know, cutting, drilling, grinding or braiding. Because you’re releasing dust, hand tools are allowed. Now, to be back up a bit. We’re talking about, I talked about the different names of as best as but there’s actually two types, and they’re called friable and non friable, and we love fancy terms, because it makes us you know, consultants sound important and allows us to charge what we can, but what it is is friable, is crushable. So that means in your hand, you can crush that material into a fine dust. And when we think about pipe wrap and duct wrap plaster, you can crush that and turn it into a dust plasters a lot harder, you got to you know, make sure you’re doing your morning workout. But definitely duct wrap and pipe wrap. So it’s frightful. So I can physically release a lot of fibers in the air, which would be super dangerous and super stupid. Non friable is non crushable. So that means the floor tile, for example, I cannot lift a floor tile up and crush it into dust with my bare hands, you know, you’re gonna have to have like a GI Joe action kung fu grip before you’re going to have that kind of strength. So that’s considered non friable, non crushable. And the rules and regulations are going to be different between them. So a lot less exposure with floor tiles, because you’re not crushing it, as long as you’re not using power tools again, on it to cut drill, grind or braid. If you’re removing old 1970s Brown floor tiles, because for some reason you don’t like the brown and green floor tiles in your house anymore. I don’t know why you do that. But, um, we want to make sure you’re not using power tools. And again, the rules specifically for your jurisdiction may include non friable. So always check, but that’s kind of the difference. That’s that’s what we’re talking about.
Unknown Speaker 28:31
So what happens if it is asbestos? you’ve tested now, and it came back positive? Well, that sucks, right? It sucks royally. Now, from a health perspective, the dangers of asbestos, in situ, undisturbed, are minimal, right? If it’s not being aerosolized, you’re not breathing it in. Okay? If it’s not being aerosolized, it’s not you’re not breathing it in. So if it’s in your plaster, if it’s in your ceiling, stipple, from 1970s, with all those fancy swirls and stalagmites, you’re not breathing it in. Okay? If you are doing a renovation, deconstruction, right, and you’re smashing, breaking, destroying and releasing dust, that’s when we can release those fibers and that’s when the rules and regulations are going to drop the hammer. So that’s why before those kinds of renovations if your home is older than 1980 in my region, check yours. You should really be testing before Now interestingly, in Ontario, government’s Ministry of Labour as I mentioned, and Ministry of Labour cares about Labour’s workers health. They actually don’t care about homeowners else because that’s not under their jurisdiction. And so homeowners in Ontario are allowed to do whatever they want. When it comes to as fast as I’m not saying you should do that don’t do that don’t do dumb things just because you think you can get away with it. But that’s a gap in the system here in Ontario. And that’s why in other jurisdictions, it’s covered by Ministry of Environment or something like that to encompass everybody. But that is an unfortunate whole within Ontario’s laws. That said, we still want to make sure we’re doing stuff so it comes back positive, then you’re going to involve a consultant, and an abatement professional, someone who is certified trained and certified to remove asbestos within the home indoor environment, and so you’re going to have them involved creating a scope of work and the procedure to carry it out. Now, is that cheap? No, probably not.
Now, pipe wrap and duct wrap, they have these cool stuff. So there’s something you know, there’s, there’s kind of different levels. And we’re not going to get into it because it doesn’t really matter. But there’s different levels of abatement. And the simplest one is is called a glove bag. And these are super cool, there’s like a garbage bag with sticky stuff in it. And you actually wrap the garbage bag around this, let’s say it’s a pipe wrap. And in the bag comes with with hands in the bag. Super cool, right? So you can stick your hands into the bag and answer the they’ve got the little gloves Bateman built right into it. And so they wrap the duct up, and then you get your hands in there and you can you can take all the duct stuff apart, and it all falls into the bag. And then you can actually seal the bag up. And then you can take it off. So you’re actually containing it super cool. I don’t know what else I’d use those bags with gloves for, but I’m sure I’d find a reason you know, just mucking about. I’m sure it’ll be good for kids school projects to get all muddy. But so that’s called a glove bag. You know, encapsulation is allowed. Where we actually, you know, let’s say it’s plaster and we put drywall over it. As long as you’re not using power tools and doing any damage, you can potentially leave it in place, you may have to identify it depending on who you are and where you are to any workers or any people that come in. But encapsulation is in place. And again, just because you have it doesn’t mean you have to tear it out, you can leave it in place, if it’s in good condition, if it’s not harming anything, you can actually leave it in place. We just want to make sure that we’re not exposing anyone to fibers, because we don’t want them breathing it in. And so an abatement goes on, they do everything properly. And there’s someone like me that would come in and do a clearance test after the fact I would write the scope of work as someone who does this professionally, an abatement professional within carry it out. And the difference between abatement and remediation remediations for biological things like molds and bacterias. But abatements for things that aren’t biological. That’s your nerd word for the day. And so, yeah, that’s basically how it works. Someone will come in and carry out a clearance test. And it’s pretty strict. There’s a lot of orange plastic, there’s a lot of people in you know, Tyvek, bunny suits, and a lot of spray glue, making sure that all fibers are actually gone. And so again, can you do this? No, you are not certified to remove asbestos. So please, please, please, please, we want to err on the side of caution and safety for you and your family. You need to know the details but and all that stuff actually gets bagged up and double bagged and actually disposed of as hazardous waste so that again, we’re not actually getting the people at your at your local landfill the workers sick. Because that’s a really big deal, right? So that’s kind of the process.
Do you have asbestos in your home, maybe you might want to check if you’re going to do renovations. But again, in situ, as long as there’s no fibers being released. You’re not you know, scraping damaging, you know, banging you know, pipe wrap duct wrap, stuff like that your plaster is not falling apart. In situ, it poses no health risk, right? It’s when it’s in the air stream when fibers are released when the air is blowing across those fibers. When we damage it, that’s when it becomes airborne. And that’s when we want to take proper actions. So first, you need to determine if your home is old enough to potentially contain it. So find out when asbestos was banned in your area and figure out and just again, you could have 100 year old house that didn’t have as best as originally, but then maybe some renovations in the 1960s you know a new kitchen or something and maybe they use asbestos in the plaster then and so you got to be thinking about those kind of details as well. Again, in situ, stable, it poses no health risks. It’s only when it’s disturbed. Okay. If disturbing potential material, you should test it before you poke it, if you’re not sure whether it contains asbestos, put the hammer down and figure out how to how to safely and properly test contacting a lab caught contacting someone who has to take the test depending on where you live. And capsulation is acceptable. So you can wrap it up and leave it there. And just make sure that people know about it. Anyone who comes in and potentially going to do that, because you would hate to hear you’re listening to this podcast because you care about your family. But you also you don’t want you know, workers coming in improving your house to get sick either. So make sure we’re going to tell them if we’re encapsulating. When removal, removing it, follow the regulations, don’t do it on the cheap, because the cheap means it’s not safe, and that’s going to impact your family. All right. And yeah, make workers aware of it.
So it’s a great material, it’ll be it’s still around. Your residential exposures are very, very, very low. Even if you do disturb it unless of course you smash out an entire room or a whole house full of assessed as plaster. Containing plaster is still a lot of exposure and with any deconstruction you should be containing and controlling right if you’re gutting a bedroom and redoing it, you know, put some plastic over the door, put a fan in the window exhausting out. Right We want to control all particulate during deconstruction. Wear respirators wear personal protective equipment, you know, wear some overalls that you can take out before your travels through the house, throw the garbage out the window. You know, this is not asbestos abatement rules. These are just common sense. If we’re doing deconstruction, we want to make sure that you’re not doing something willy nilly and making things worse. So but as best as is really serious, it can really harm you. Typical exposures within the home are very low unless we’re doing you know massive deconstruction. And you need to find out what the rules are in your jurisdiction. You need to take the appropriate precautions. But for the most part for the day to day, if it’s not disturbed, it’s not going to be a health impact for you. All right. I hope that helps lots of information on my website, and I really appreciate your listening. Cheers.
If you enjoy the show, please leave a review and subscribe to the podcast and you will be doing your part to help others create their own healthy homes. If you’d like to learn more about me Stephen Collette and what I do, please check out my website at your healthy house.ca music for the podcast is by Brian Pickett of Voodoo highway music. Audio technical support is by Mike Pickett. editorial support is by Eric Rosen. I’m your host, Stephen Collette. Thanks for listening and enjoy your day.
Unknown Speaker 38:18
What’s the only thing worse than asbestos? Worsebestos!